ACSMC Championship 2012

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pigeondave
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Re: ACSMC Championship 2012

Post by pigeondave »

Rob,
Just an idea.

If you're worried about the bolts and the revs would it be better using lockwire rather than thread lock?
Just thinking that the gearbox getting warm might soften the thread lock and then bolts may creep out.

Plus lockwired bolts look cool (although they would be in the bell housing)

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Re: ACSMC Championship 2012

Post by stylussprinter »

pigeondave wrote:Rob,
Just an idea.

If you're worried about the bolts and the revs would it be better using lockwire rather than thread lock?
Just thinking that the gearbox getting warm might soften the thread lock and then bolts may creep out.

Plus lockwired bolts look cool (although they would be in the bell housing)
I had been thinking along those lines but then thought ---- it wouldn't stop them loosening , just prevent them unscrewing and falling around in the bell housing which is good . I'd still have the problem of an engine out job to put them in tight again :evil:
Need to find out other people with high reving units and their solutions to this , that's if it's happened to others :?:
I just love the Stylus but she keeps swallowing £££ !
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Re: ACSMC Championship 2012

Post by hearbear »

You couldn't make a lock tab like the type that were on the mk2 escort discs?
Image

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pigeondave
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Re: ACSMC Championship 2012

Post by pigeondave »

you're correct Rob lock wire DOESN'T stop the bolts from losing torque
I thought it did.

this is an interesting vid
http://youtu.be/OwFjUX6SaY8

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Re: ACSMC Championship 2012

Post by stylussprinter »

hearbear wrote:You couldn't make a lock tab like the type that were on the mk2 escort discs?
possibly :roll:
I just love the Stylus but she keeps swallowing £££ !
Alfa Red 159 2.4 jtdm ti 260bhp 365lbft / BilsteinB12 + Adjustable Powerflex camber/castor bushes. Red STYLUS 2lt zetec 231bhp 185lbft Dunnell . RED 1972 Alfa 2lt GTAm replica 170bhp.

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Re: ACSMC Championship 2012

Post by stylussprinter »

pigeondave wrote:you're correct Rob lock wire DOESN'T stop the bolts from losing torque
I thought it did.

this is an interesting vid
http://youtu.be/OwFjUX6SaY8
Quite difficult to lockwire those four bolts at the rear of the bell housing --- having watched his video :roll:

I'm still asking around on this :wink:
I just love the Stylus but she keeps swallowing £££ !
Alfa Red 159 2.4 jtdm ti 260bhp 365lbft / BilsteinB12 + Adjustable Powerflex camber/castor bushes. Red STYLUS 2lt zetec 231bhp 185lbft Dunnell . RED 1972 Alfa 2lt GTAm replica 170bhp.

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Re: ACSMC Championship 2012

Post by MattD »

Rob

My Haynes Sierra manual says 52-66 lbf ft for bellhousing to gearbox bolts - with cast iron bellhousing of course !
This is substantially more than the 4 speed boxes in my MK2 Capri manual, which are in the 35-45 range.

Matt
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Kit 1999, OTR 2002, and still tweaking....

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Re: ACSMC Championship 2012

Post by stylussprinter »

MattD wrote:Rob

My Haynes Sierra manual says 52-66 lbf ft for bellhousing to gearbox bolts - with cast iron bellhousing of course !
This is substantially more than the 4 speed boxes in my MK2 Capri manual, which are in the 35-45 range.

Matt
Well there's absolutely no way they didn't get that much torque , more likely 60 to 70lbft even though I guessed --- read heavy handed :P

I've seen comment on other forums that spring washers do next to now't so maybe I'll use those gripper types that are serrated all round and quite thin ------ not sure what they're called :?:
If you look on BURTON's catalogue of bits/bobs to do with bell housing to type 9 , they don't list any sort of washers , just the M12 30 bolts :roll:
I just love the Stylus but she keeps swallowing £££ !
Alfa Red 159 2.4 jtdm ti 260bhp 365lbft / BilsteinB12 + Adjustable Powerflex camber/castor bushes. Red STYLUS 2lt zetec 231bhp 185lbft Dunnell . RED 1972 Alfa 2lt GTAm replica 170bhp.

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Re: ACSMC Championship 2012

Post by MattD »

stylussprinter wrote: maybe I'll use those gripper types that are serrated all round and quite thin ------ not sure what they're called :?:
Shakeproof washers - don't think they'd do much either.

How about converting to studs & aero locking nuts - "aerotite" or "K" nuts.
You could put the studs in with a permanent type loctite rather than simple thread lock.
Merlinmotorsport do the K nuts.
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Re: ACSMC Championship 2012

Post by stylussprinter »

MattD wrote:
stylussprinter wrote: maybe I'll use those gripper types that are serrated all round and quite thin ------ not sure what they're called :?:
Shakeproof washers - don't think they'd do much either.

How about converting to studs & aero locking nuts - "aerotite" or "K" nuts.
You could put the studs in with a permanent type loctite rather than simple thread lock.
Merlinmotorsport do the K nuts.
Yep , could do ,but would the studs be any better ---- not certain how much they can take , they look quite skinny (K nuts that is) :?: Still not sure yet :?
I just love the Stylus but she keeps swallowing £££ !
Alfa Red 159 2.4 jtdm ti 260bhp 365lbft / BilsteinB12 + Adjustable Powerflex camber/castor bushes. Red STYLUS 2lt zetec 231bhp 185lbft Dunnell . RED 1972 Alfa 2lt GTAm replica 170bhp.

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Re: ACSMC Championship 2012

Post by stylussprinter »

I did see a guy with a Sylva Striker at a sprint and he had drilled his bell housing full of 40/50mm's holes for weight loss . I'm thinking --- maybe just two 90mm's holes drilled directly above the bolts/left/right sides then checking would be easy and possibly a socket and ratchet would get in there :?: :?: :?:
BUT ----- would the housing be strong enough :?: I have drilled holes already for the hyd pipes to pass through and cut large chunks off the bottom driver's side when the car was built , to clear the chassis tube ---- it's been like that for years :roll:
I just love the Stylus but she keeps swallowing £££ !
Alfa Red 159 2.4 jtdm ti 260bhp 365lbft / BilsteinB12 + Adjustable Powerflex camber/castor bushes. Red STYLUS 2lt zetec 231bhp 185lbft Dunnell . RED 1972 Alfa 2lt GTAm replica 170bhp.

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Re: ACSMC Championship 2012

Post by stylussprinter »

I've just been told by a contact on turbosport , of a company called NORDLOCK and having looked at their nut/bolt/washer locking systems , I now think their double cam&grip washers are the answer. Vibration/resonance loosens all other methods according to their video but these items hold tight but need 20% more torque than would be normal for a given bolt size.
I just love the Stylus but she keeps swallowing £££ !
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Re: ACSMC Championship 2012

Post by DH2 »

stylussprinter wrote:I did see a guy with a Sylva Striker at a sprint and he had drilled his bell housing full of 40/50mm's holes for weight loss . I'm thinking --- maybe just two 90mm's holes drilled directly above the bolts/left/right sides then checking would be easy and possibly a socket and ratchet would get in there :?: :?: :?:
BUT ----- would the housing be strong enough :?: I have drilled holes already for the hyd pipes to pass through and cut large chunks off the bottom driver's side when the car was built , to clear the chassis tube ---- it's been like that for years :roll:
Making holes near the attachment face is a different ball game to making holes elsewhere though.

Assuming that we are talking about the four bolts that attach into the front of the Type9 main housing, a few of thoughts:
1. Are you sure that the threads were oil free, as if not, all bets are off on the thread lock.
2. The rear of these threads are open - so two things, one, contamination could have upset your thread lock; two, it might give you an opportunity to be able to inspect them if you paint mark them once torqued.
3. Have you checked the condition of the threads into which these bolts fit - have you over-torqued?
4. There are numerous different "grades" of thread lock, it may be worth investigating a stronger option.

Dave

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Re: ACSMC Championship 2012

Post by pigeondave »

Rob,

I have seen a picture somewhere of a drilled bell housing (might have been the Build Your Own Sports Car (2nd Edition) for as little as £250 - and race it! book)
and they said that the scrutineers let is pass once but didn't want to see it again.

Off topic I have a slipping clutch. what clutch are you using? my one is currently the h/d organic one from your engine builder. Is there a cheaper source?

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Re: ACSMC Championship 2012

Post by stylussprinter »

DH2 -- Good points you raise , I'll paint mark the protruding treads . Threads in the box are ok so at the moment I'm planning to use the NORDLOCK washers and lubricate the thread as they advise (to acheive the extra 20% torque) so no threadlock can be used with these washers. They are designed to beat the resonance problem --- never heard of them before but they are involved within the space and aero industry.

Dave/(pigeon)
My clutch cover is AP H Duty and the plate used to be H Duty organic . Since going TB's and power upgrade I use a 4 paddle ceramic via Dunnell which is great once you get used to it . Don't think there's much difference in the various suppliers prices.
My original organic was in perfect condition after 7 years hard use on track , it never slipped ---- what mileage has your plate done Dave :?:
I just love the Stylus but she keeps swallowing £££ !
Alfa Red 159 2.4 jtdm ti 260bhp 365lbft / BilsteinB12 + Adjustable Powerflex camber/castor bushes. Red STYLUS 2lt zetec 231bhp 185lbft Dunnell . RED 1972 Alfa 2lt GTAm replica 170bhp.

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