clubstylus

Hi all.

I joined up a couple of weeks ago for a nose around, having a read about Stylus, after dreaming up a fantasy project.
In 2002 I built a Westfield with a Honda blackbird motorbike engine (if you're bored one day, there's some stuff here about it here: www.megabird.co.uk). Over the course of the last 5 years, I have fettled it and driven to far flung reaches of the UK on some se7ens list tours, it's done about 12k miles now I think. Its great fun, the bike engine is a real hoot, especially as it is just a play car for me.

Anyway, I got itchy feet to build another car. Having a whole heap more experience of kit cars than I had when I started (I believe "green" was the term applied to me then!), I was introduced to the Sylva world quite early on, and have seen plenty of Furys, Phoenixs, Strikers, but they don't fully float my boat.
I was drawn to the r1ot, on the basis that as what can best be described as "a skinny runt", I could build a seriously lightweight package including the driver. I still like the r1ot, but also quite fancy something which is a bit less 7-style, something with more bodywork. Maybe I am just getting old, or perhaps I have 'done' the raw exposed BEC thing?

Step up, the Stylus. I saw the Stylus quite a while ago, a very pretty car. Then I saw the RT a year or so back. To my eye, it is probably the best looking se7en type car (I hope I'm not out of line by calling it a se7en - it is in the context of a being a small lightweight '7 inspired' sports car), adds a more modern/aggresive tone to the look of the original car, and steps into the lead of my "if I were to build another kit car".

And so the fantasy project begins... of course it's an RT, and I think it has to be screenless. But the big thing I guess, is which powertrain do I want? Well, I think a car engine this time, rather than bike power - as much as I love the bike power, it can be hard work if you're not particularly in the mood, and a change is as good as... I am however, a Honda man. This does limit things a little, as until recent years, most Honda engines "turned the wrong way", making a conversion to RWD tricky. But then that nice Mr Honda gave us the S2000. Perfect.
An RT, with an S2000 (on throttle bodies would be nice, for noise rather than power, I love induction roar) engine. From what I read, the S2000 gearbox isn't so bad, so I'll look at including that too. And while I'm on, it seems foolish not to look at the diff too, so it could be the full drivetrain.
I haven't done any serious research yet into how feasible this is. I know the F20C (that's the engine designation for the S2000 engine) is quite big, and may need a dry sump to get the height down, and I definitely know that the bellhousing is huge. I would also need to check out the gearing, which may rule out the use of the Honda diff, and see me seeking out something else, though that may have knock on advantages in terms of ease of driveshafts/uprights etc. Perhaps it is too big and heavy for a lightweight chap like me, it doesn't go with the ultra-lightweight BEC ethos!

240bhp and 9000rpm as standard with Honda reliability? Sounds great. I'm sure in reality it's not that simple, and I suspect its not all that cheap. Wrapped in an RT body, with the independent RT handling. It sure would be nice. Perhaps it is just a fantasy project, its ok to dream isn't it. Or maybe life is too short, and I should make it happen!

DH2

Welcome to the board.

You're choice of engine isn't that strange really, just a bit different.
Apparently it has been done to a luego and a Indy before. Even with the diff

If you can use the S2k diff, you get an ATB with a 4.1 ratio

Maybe read up and contact here: http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthr ... ?tid=82852

But I think the hardest part at the moment might be to get your hands on a car/project.

If you would go bec again, then might wanna look at this one: http://www.clubstylus.be/cars/members/lpratt.html

Werner Van Loock wrote:Welcome to the board.

Thanks

Werner Van Loock wrote:You're choice of engine isn't that strange really, just a bit different.

Oh no, definitely not, but I've not heard of one in a Stylus yet.

Werner Van Loock wrote: Apparently it has been done to a luego and a Indy before. Even with the diff. Maybe read up and contact here: http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthr ... ?tid=82852

Thanks for the link, looks useful for reference. There are a handful of Westfields with the engine, and plenty of jap-mobiles. Fortunately S2000 drivers are quite generous in their donation of them to the scrapheap! The diff is apparently quite nice (small/light), but it depends how the ratios would work out with smaller wheels and tyres.

Werner Van Loock wrote:But I think the hardest part at the moment might be to get your hands on a car/project.

I've not quite managed to get the full picture from reading on here - what is the score with that?

DH2

sounds like a nice project. There was a westy styled car with an S2000 engine at the last track day i went to. He was very quick.

Its an excellent engine choice for a light weight car. I'm using a rotary engine which hasnt been done very much from what i can see from research. Even fewer that are turbo charged.

If you find a car with the DeDion rear end, you can keep the sierra rear diff which you can get just about any ratios you like with LSD. May aswell just leave that in place rather than trying to fit the s2000 diff.

I dont think you will get a new kit, i picked up a neglected shell/chassis which had already been registered but then stripped of all its machanical and electrical parts.

Welcome.

The S2000 engine set-up is superb, BUT it is an expensive install because of the dry sump kit (around £1k) and the need for an aftermarket ECU unless you are very good at electronics.

And if you looking to get a secondhand kit make sure you get everything you need with it, as there is no chance of getting anything new at the moment and the manufacturer is 'unavailable'.

And as others have said the Sierra diff is the way to go, loads of ratio's, Quaife diff if you need it, and all you need to do is get a prop made up which is easy enough.

Jasper

Nissanman wrote:there is no chance of getting anything new at the moment and the manufacturer is 'unavailable'.

hmmm, this is a bit of an issue - ok so most things can be dealt with, but not having access to some of the bespoke parts is a bit of a pain.

Nissanman wrote:And as others have said the Sierra diff is the way to go, loads of ratio's, Quaife diff if you need it, and all you need to do is get a prop made up which is easy enough.

yeah sure, it'll depend what ratio I end up deciding to use. ok so Sierra will plop straight in, but the S2000 unit is small and light, as are others like the Freelander item I have in my Westfield.

DH2

im sure Rob can sort a chassis and body for you.....

Welcome to the club!

If you're brave enough there's a chassis on ebay (ntdwm)
150215502233

Pete&Matt wrote:im sure Rob can sort a chassis and body for you.....

well it might be an option if he finally makes a decision and stops gardening (hello Rob, yes I've been reading the forum )

drhunter wrote:If you're brave enough there's a chassis on ebay

are we saying that the chassis (Fury vs Stylus) are interchangeable then?

DH2

Fury chassis is similar but not the same as the Stylus - Fury has high sides like a 7, Stylus has low sides to allow for proper doors
but has a "sill" to replace the missing strength.

Matt

Nissanman wrote:And as others have said the Sierra diff is the way to go, loads of ratio's, Quaife diff if you need it, and all you need to do is get a prop made up which is easy enough.

yeah sure, it'll depend what ratio I end up deciding to use. ok so Sierra will plop straight in, but the S2000 unit is small and light, as are others like the Freelander item I have in my Westfield.

DH2[/quote]

I suppose it's a case of how much work you want to make for yourself changing all the rear of the car to save a few lbs in weight - especially as you're already making big changes to the engine bay and tunnel to fit in that engine. And with 250bhp on tap, you're not going to notice a very extra lbs

Bikenuts wrote:Fury chassis is similar but not the same as the Stylus - Fury has high sides like a 7, Stylus has low sides to allow for proper doors
but has a "sill" to replace the missing strength.

Is that generally the only real difference? I would be bonding the doors in anyway, so was already considering what chassis mods I could add for increased side protection (possibly as part of a Caged cage, which is another must). I have a few friends with some good Fury experience, which could be useful in that situation.

Nissanman wrote:I suppose it's a case of how much work you want to make for yourself changing all the rear of the car to save a few lbs in weight

Yep true enough...

DH2

The Stylus is not only better door space. The whole chassis is wider than a Fury plus stiffer due to 1.4mm steel gussetts below the door sills and the seat pan itself -- a must , as the door sill is lower than a Fury. Fury seat pans are alloy rivetted on. Also more pedal/left foot space plus more seat width. So easier choice for a seat. Another Stylus plus , is the simplicity of body mounting especially if you solid mount the doors. NO panels to line up . The Fury has quite a few F/Glass panels as a kit supplied to mount and make look good ---- I didn't realise that before building my car then chatting to some Fury owners

A touch heavier yes but normally down to most Fury builders wanting a stripped out look With the power you intend ------ chassis stiffness will be more influential on handling than a touch lighter

DIFF' thread Only problem with Freelander and Honda or any other modern diff' choice ---- is the total lack of ratio choices. Mr FORDS history of manufacture means a massive after market supply of various ratios. Just ESCORT alone gives you -- 3.6 3.89 4.1 4.4 5.3 plus others made to order.

stylussprinter wrote:The Stylus is not only better door space. The whole chassis is wider than a Fury plus stiffer due to 1.4mm steel gussetts below the door sills and the seat pan itself -- a must , as the door sill is lower than a Fury. Fury seat pans are alloy rivetted on.

Ok so quite a bit different then if it is different dimensions. I can see how the welded steel gussets will help with stiffness, but then it's always a trade off of against weight right - anyone got any Stylus weights, chassis, bodywork, complete car? Do the seat pans really need to be all steel?!?

stylussprinter wrote:Also more pedal/left foot space plus more seat width. So easier choice for a seat.

Width isn't an issue. In fact, I would prefer something smaller, my Westfield is too big for me!

stylussprinter wrote:Another Stylus plus , is the simplicity of body mounting especially if you solid mount the doors. NO panels to line up . The Fury has quite a few F/Glass panels as a kit supplied to mount and make look good ---- I didn't realise that before building my car then chatting to some Fury owners

That sounds like a definite bonus. I know I spent quite a bit of time getting the body panels all aligned on the Westfield. I gather that the flip front is just a case of summoning up some courage to chop the front of the body off? And the usual bonnet then has to be bonded in?

stylussprinter wrote:A touch heavier yes but normally down to most Fury builders wanting a stripped out look With the power you intend ------ chassis stiffness will be more influential on handling than a touch lighter

Stripped out is, if nothing else, weather-proof. I would be fitting a full cage , which added notable extra stiffness to my Westie.

stylussprinter wrote:Only problem with Freelander and Honda or any other modern diff' choice ---- is the total lack of ratio choices. Mr FORDS history of manufacture means a massive after market supply of various ratios.

Yep that's a fair enough point, I did say from the outset it would be dependant on how the final ratios work out, but it could be a cost effective route to an ATB diff (in the case of the Honda).

DH2

hello and welcome!

i would say yes to the seat pans needing to be made from steel, unless you want to run over something at speed and find it lodged in your rear end!

i agree with rob too about the chassis stiffness is more influential than shedding a few pounds. i've just fitted 2 strut braces to my nissan skyline to stiffen it up further and it makes quite a bit of difference. you could almost feel the body flexing before. especially the front wings. not now!

same applies to the chassis. if it isn't strong but is light, it will still be under the same forces and the light one will eventually have flexed enough, work hardened the material and then crack and cause you to crash! Nasty!!