Water fueled engines

[Pete&Matt]

There is an LPG conversion for Diesel engines which adds a small amount of LPG. Supposed to improve mpg, power and torque. This is not a replacement like for petrol engines but a supplementary to improve combustion. Maybe this system works in a similar manner by improving the efficientcy of the combustion process??

[stylussprinter]

There is an LPG conversion for Diesel engines which adds a small amount of LPG. Supposed to improve mpg, power and torque. This is not a replacement like for petrol engines but a supplementary to improve combustion. Maybe this system works in a similar manner by improving the efficientcy of the combustion process??

That's exactly what they say on their guff I'm not a theorist , more an idea then try it sort of guy as with most of the mod's I've done on the Stylus , set up wise

[Schrodinger]

IF it's able to produce enough H2 then it would be usable on a petrol engine, but certainly not on a diesel, ignition timing will be way off as the diesel is selfigniting, no sparkplug to ignite at the right point..

But where does the energy come from to make the H2?

Jeff

Via the alternator -- through the battery

IF all of the systems were working at 100% efficiency (not very likely) you would need all of the energy the engine produced to generate electricity to make the H to fuel the engine. The examples I have seen of this on the web have all used small engines with H produced using mains electricity and all the engines have done is run not driven anything. Also when I was at school (many moons ago) we did the experiment of producing H & O from water using 12v BUT it had to be pure water as the terminals become contaminated quite quickly with tap water and the quantities of H & O were minute compared to mains production (a 2.0l engine takes in approx 1.0l gas on each revolution)

[alecmartin19]

i'm not sure exactly if this will work or not rob but as i can see it, adding hydrogen to the fuel air mixture would possibly do the same as increasing the octane level of the fuel! as all fuels burned in modern engines are all hydrocarbons, they have some hydrogen in them which is released during the burning process! this is then combined with the oxygen among other compounds from the fuel to produce among other things, H2O in the exhaust gas! along with CO2 and other byproducts of burning a hydrocarbons!

that said, adding hydrogen to the fuel/air will increase the calorific value of the fuel(the amount of energy able to be extracted from a certain weight) and increase power or because for every set weight of fuel it now has more energy, you need less of it to produce the same amount of work done! this is how using a higher octane fuel like v Power produces greater mpg!

as for ignition timing, i think it would need a different map! the modern engines in cars can adjust ignition timing themselves to a certain degree using knock sensors and also vary when injectors put in the fuel! my skyline used to do it and would map its self for optimum up to about 300bhp's worth of modification. not sure if yours will though!

hope i have put the correct information in here! just trying to remember what i learned when i was doing my training as an aircraft technician! please someone correct me if i'm wrong! as i am so often!

another way of producing hydrogen and oxygen from water in a reaction as used on a jet drag bike is water passed through a heated catalyst of hydrogen peroxide and something else! thats hair bleach! can't remember what the other compound is but it splits the hydrogen and oxygen apart from the water and then burns them in a combustion chamber! the fuel is water and the only exhaust as far as i'm aware is water in the form of superheated steam which is where it gets its propulsion from! well worth taking a look at! i'll find a link!

hope thats been some help! or maybe not at all! sorry!

[alecmartin19]

oops! got the thing about the rocket bike wrong for definate! its not water as the fuel its hydrogen peroxide! similar to water but doesn't taste as nice! the catalyst is silver! sorry guys! i'm sure you can watch a video of it on utube somewhere under rocket bike and santa pod! have a look! its something else!

[stylussprinter]

I've just met the guy with it fitted to his van and I have to say it looked a very tidy installation. No time for a test run but it ran very quietly for a 2.2 lt deisel turbo . Pick-up was crisp and he verbally claimed 46mpg since doing the install . Having seen it , I'll probably have a go at doing it THEN let you know the result

[Bikenuts]

There is an LPG conversion for Diesel engines which adds a small amount of LPG. Supposed to improve mpg, power and torque. This is not a replacement like for petrol engines but a supplementary to improve combustion. Maybe this system works in a similar manner by improving the efficientcy of the combustion process??

I used to run LPG fumigation in my Toyota Surf (3 litre turbo diesel) at very low settings (small amount of LPG added) it did give small improvements in economy – even accounting for the gas used, but only by about 5%. It also reduced emissions; at least those measured by an MOT type smoke test by about 66% - reading 1.5 on diesel 0 .5 on diesel and LPG. ~This is supposedly due to improved combustion but the exact mechanism is still being debated. At higher settings it gave a LOT more power – how much was ultimately limited by the onset of knock but 40% was achievable. Incidentally I used to run the engine on water too; forget silly electrolysis just spray the stuff straight in! water injection makes a huge difference on a non intercooled diesel.

[stylussprinter]

My Landcruiser's got an Allisport intercooler fitted so there'd be no cooling effect from water injection or not much anyway

[alecmartin19]

you may find that water injection may still make a difference as the water does not only have a cooling effect on the air but makes it more dense! this denser air allows you to add more fuel to maintain the correct fuel air ratio of 14.7:1 (called the stoichiometric ratio. also known as lambda)

[stylussprinter]

you may find that water injection may still make a difference as the water does not only have a cooling effect on the air but makes it more dense! this denser air allows you to add more fuel to maintain the correct fuel air ratio of 14.7:1 (called the stoichiometric ratio. also known as lambda)

That's what my cousin said would be the case with hydrogen + oxygen added. More dense = bigger bang He's ex - REME and tells me that Spitfires used this approach to increase power very successfully

[jefferybond]

In this months Practical Performance Car mag, there is a letter printed about this very subject of using electrolysis to generate hydrogen in order to improve efficiency.

Of course the mag correctly rubbishes the idea! Have you investigated any further Rob?

Jeff

[stylussprinter]

In this months Practical Performance Car mag, there is a letter printed about this very subject of using electrolysis to generate hydrogen in order to improve efficiency.

Of course the mag correctly rubbishes the idea! Have you investigated any further Rob?

Jeff

Yes , I've done tests , discussed the results with a garage owner friend of mine. It just so happens that he was also looking into it independantly of me talking to him. He has also tested it out on the bench but has come up with a very much more efficient design and is having it made up by an engineering company who make valves , rods and pistons for Aston Martins. He has agreed to make my Landcruiser the 1st test bed with his developement of it. I'll be paying costs. He's extremely busy with his business so it could be many months before getting fitted to my Cruiser He tunes Subaru , Porsche ,Nissan , Honda cars and is running a car in the ' TRACK ATTACK ' tuners race series and has his own 4 x 4 rolling road .

He says the people calling ' scam ' are saying it because they can't do it Too much theory NO action ---- flat earth etc etc

We'll see , give it time

[jefferybond]

He says the people calling ' scam ' are saying it because they can't do it Too much theory NO action ---- flat earth etc etc

I think it is a scam, but *not* because I can't do it, but because I have a Physics degree, and therefore familiar with thermodynamics.

I know I keep going on about it and apologise for it, but I just don't want you to waste time and money on a futile project!

Jeff

[stylussprinter]

H'mmm , well during my time working for Unilever , I had to pick up the mess from farm managers with agricultural degrees who'd got the farm they were in charge of in a financial loss situation so have never been greatly impressed with degrees on their own .
Don't mean to be rude I believe if you limit yourself to previous accepted knowledge then learning will be limited too . Trying and failing usually eventually produces the result -- including scientific work , just look at history and inventions

I adopted the same principal towards developing the Stylus for track events --- try it and see

You can have a good chuckle at my expense should it prove to be unsuccessful and I wont be offended BUT I'll push it to the end and see

[jefferybond]

Don't mean to be rude I believe if you limit yourself to previous accepted knowledge then learning will be limited too . Trying and failing usually eventually produces the result -- including scientific work , just look at history and inventions

Trying to do this certainly will give you a result - it just might not be the positive result you hoped for.

Of course experimentation is always to be encouraged, especially in uncharted areas, but remember that people have been experimenting with perpetual motion machines (which is similar to what you are attempting) for at least 1000 years, and as far as I know, none of them have been made to work yet!

As for limiting oneself to previously accepted knowledge, that might be a fair point in certain circumstances, but you are attempting to overturn basic physical principles that have formed the foundations of modern science for over 100 years. If you succeed, you surely deserve a Nobel prize!

Sorry, I'll shut up and keep quite about the subject now!

Jeff