Lower front wishbones

[stylussprinter]

One of my wishbones got bent in the Goodwood alloy upright failure so today , having nowt on , I've made up a jig to make new ones. If anybody else goes up the route of spherical rod ended wishbones then I can now supply
Even with the upright breakage these rodends have been on my car for 4 years now without signs of wear. Having said that , I clean them and WD often.

[Werner Van Loock]

Are you going to make the bent (later) ones?

Like Pete and Matt have on their car, also the front tube is a lot thicker

If you enlarge the picture you can see it.

[Pete&Matt]

they were a later revision that Tim supplied us with! We were very un-happy about the ones he had supplied as the lower ball joint had to be wound right out to get the camber neutral rather than full on positive camber! So im not sure if the ones we have were supplied on all kits from the start or not?!

[stylussprinter]

Are you going to make the bent (later) ones?

Like Pete and Matt have on their car, also the front tube is a lot thicker

If you enlarge the picture you can see it.

I don't have a pattern . I've sold all the old bits I took off my car from the original build several years ago

[Antnicuk]

Do you notice any improvement over the conventional ones? What sort of price would they be and would they include the rose joint?


I inspected my upper rocker arms which dont look like the one in the picture and they look like they have bent in the past so i was going to try and re inforce them but the ones above look much better. Also, I only have one bracket going from the chassis to the bracket holding the pivot in the rocker arm but there are 2 in the pic above. What rocker arms are you using to race with? and have you stregthened them?

[Werner Van Loock]

All improvements of Tim

The benefit of the bent arms is that the bottom ball joint boot doesn't get pinched/torn between arm and upright when the car is jacked up.

[Antnicuk]

I assume you wouldnt have a boot on the rose joint type though

[stylussprinter]

Do you notice any improvement over the conventional ones? What sort of price would they be and would they include the rose joint?

1)The improvement comes from being able to adjust camber/castor/toe to half a turn of the rose joint as opposed to ONLY a complete turn of the SHERPA van rodend --- also the poly bushes take up all the space within the pick - up points , so little or no adjustment can be made to their positioning(It 'is' possible as I advised Matt D. --- to grind a little off the tube housing the poly bushes to then position the wishbone more forward)
Boots are a bl ---- dy pain to put on rose joints because you have to also get your spacers in each side of the rodend. I prefer to clean them with a 2 foot rag x 2 inches wide cheese wire style plus squirt WD over them. Next time you rag them it comes off easy and they stay like new.
Personally I wouldn't use cheap rodends so price would be National rodends £23 plus range. You'd need 3 rodends = £75 ball park cost . The wishbones themselves , I'd need to make up a batch to assess a sensible price(they'd also need 3 threaded inserts for half inch rodends)
Sticking my finger in the air , say ------ £100 per pair plus the rodends
It's not something you'd do unless you intend competing and like setting up your own car because you would also need an upright to take rose jointed rodends ----the list goes on --- insert for top rocking arm to take rodend.
Once you decide on this route then you tend to look for other advantages to justify the expense ---- like fitting alloy uprights with a higher stub than the Escort stubs This then leads on to adjusting the rear to acheive the wedge you want which then leads to long travel arms/long shocks etc etc


I inspected my upper rocker arms which dont look like the one in the picture and they look like they have bent in the past so i was going to try and re inforce them but the ones above look much better. Also, I only have one bracket going from the chassis to the bracket holding the pivot in the rocker arm but there are 2 in the pic above. What rocker arms are you using to race with? and have you stregthened them?

2)The extra steel diagonal supporting the rocker tower is a TIM improvement for strength . Having said that mine haven't cracked or moved even after my Goodwood incident If your rockers have bent it would be due to lowering the car behond the shock/spring units ability to move up/down ---- i.e. same as a fixed steel rod --- something has to bend = rocker arm Similar problems have been encountered at the rear for exactly the same reason
The rockers on mine are of round tube construction as on Tims RT. They were then removed to have a threaded insert welded into the end to take a rodend/rose jointed. My car has evolved over 9 years of competition and finding ways of changing the handling to suit my driving style. I'm at the stage now where I can change any feature of it's behavior and almost predict the result . This does take TIME to pick up though , however the result of understanding set-up is well worth the effort compared to getting someone to set it up for you then having to relay all the driving info in practice to that person , hoping he will understand your diagnosis of what's going on then sort it accordingly

One thing that most people don't seem to take on board is that speed around a track doesn't only come from bhp and lbsft ----- the greatest improvement in my times has come from chassis/set-up changes over the 8 years before getting more power. Yes , the new found power has lowered my lap times a second or so but learning set up got me 2 or 3 seconds every year

[Antnicuk]

thanks for the detailed answer, i dont think i will ever compete enough in that case, the car is mainly for fun and will only be used for track days rather than compeition. I'm not a good enough driver to notice adjustments like you mention or know what effect they will have.

How can i tell if i have the suspension too low so as to damage the rocker arms?,

[stylussprinter]

thanks for the detailed answer, i dont think i will ever compete enough in that case, the car is mainly for fun and will only be used for track days rather than compeition. I'm not a good enough driver to notice adjustments like you mention or know what effect they will have.

How can i tell if i have the suspension too low so as to damage the rocker arms?,

Check that there is piston travel available in the shocks when full weight is on the car . Soft springing about 30mm or hard springs(200 lbs plus) a minimum of 20mm would be ballpark for the front --- double or treble that on the rear.

[Cerberus]

Are you going to make the bent (later) ones?

Like Pete and Matt have on their car, also the front tube is a lot thicker

If you enlarge the picture you can see it.

Mine are different to these, the rear of my wishbone is made from flat oval tube if this makes sense with a thick round front tube and each tube is welded (offset)to the threaded piece that holds the lower joint.

Phil

[stylussprinter]

Are you going to make the bent (later) ones?

Like Pete and Matt have on their car, also the front tube is a lot thicker

If you enlarge the picture you can see it.

Mine are different to these, the rear of my wishbone is made from flat oval tube if this makes sense with a thick round front tube and each tube is welded (offset)to the threaded piece that holds the lower joint.

Phil

That's because ' lucky ' Nathan worked for Tim when he rebuilt that car so got all the latest bits/bobs at cost for which he was supposed to pay Tim a percentage if it was sold ----- h'mmmmm Well it didn't happen and AUS' is a long way away

[MattD]

One of my wishbones got bent in the Goodwood alloy upright failure so today , having nowt on , I've made up a jig to make new ones. If anybody else goes up the route of spherical rod ended wishbones then I can now supply
Even with the upright breakage these rodends have been on my car for 4 years now without signs of wear. Having said that , I clean them and WD often.

Rob

I've just spent a lunch hour researching the info & converting my original W/B drawing to Rod-End.
Then decided to look for pics of how the bottom balljoint upright pin gets sorted. - Its the sherpa track rod-end that I'm interested in getting rid of, plus the adjustment of course.

I'd be interested in a pair of 1/2" x 1/2" inner joints / 1/2" x 5/8" outer joint(BBJ) wishbones if you've still got you're jig. Would save me some time !

Will worry about rocker end mods another time.

Matt

[MattD]

Drew these earlier today...

If anyone wants the DWG of DXF file, send me a PM.

[stylussprinter]

So if you don't intend buying ally uprights how will you connect to my outer National rodend 1/2 x 5/8 ths ??? If you want to use the Sherpa I'll need an insert to match it. Also need measurements of your existing wishbone ---- front poly joint centre -- to outer Sherpa centre . Don't forget mine are built to match the uprights , ET15 wheel offset and track width . I can make any size though .