Xflow to Zetec upgrade

[CMA]

Just planning my winter upgrade from the old wonderful Xflow to a nice new Zetec. Its a shame to loose it but I crave a little more power/torque and the Zetec seems to be the best/cheapest option.

I'm planning on a brand new crate Zetec, raceline sump, 1.8 flywheel, Jenveys and Emerald ECU (Localish mapping and good quality ECU) this I'm hoping to mate direct to my existing Type9 and bellhousing.

Further down the line I'll be getting some cams and the vernier pullys but thats once I've got used to the expected 170-180bhp

I imagine I'll need a new tank, any pointers on that?

So any pointers on issues with getting this in the Stylus chassis? Is the alternator location a problem with chassis rails?
Are engine mounts avbailable off the shelf or will I have to make them myself? If so any pics of someones just so I can see a design before I start.
What starter would be best, would my existing one work?

I have a Golf GTi radiator so I think that will cope with the cooling.
I also have M16 calipers I guess will cope fine with stopping me?

Anything else I might need to think about? Or other items to purchase?

I'm hoping to sell my Xflow after the upgrade for approx £800+ to help towards funding it, either whole or in parts, anyone recon this is a reasonable price for the spec or should I ask more/less?
711M Block
Some headwork (Vulcan I think)
+90 Bores
BCF2 Cam
Bogg Bros inlet Manifold
R1 Carbs
Aldon Ignitor
Recent rebuild with new rings and big end shells
Felpro head gasket, Comitec inlet gasket
4-1 exhaust (if it will fit anything else apart from a Stylus)
Rolling Roaded at 101bhp at the Wheels so approx 135bhp at the fly

[mikeb]

Don't bother with a new tank, buy a swirl tank -£120. You'll probably find that 170-180 bhp WITH cams. More like 160 std c jenveys. Also, verniers aren't really necessary, certainly they make dialiling the cams in easier . The std front pulleys can be rotated on cam as they are not located with a locking pin or woodruff key,just the clamping force of the bolt. I did this with racelines stage 1 head and rl200 cams on gsxr bodies and got 189 on emeralds roller from 1800cc. Someone that attends the liphook meetings(can't remember name) had the same engine but with jenveys got 195!

[mikeb]

Don't bother with a new tank, buy a swirl tank -£120. You'll probably find that 170-180 bhp WITH cams. More like 160 std c jenveys. Also, verniers aren't really necessary, certainly they make dialiling the cams in easier . The std front pulleys can be rotated on cam as they are not located with a locking pin or woodruff key,just the clamping force of the bolt. I did this with racelines stage 1 head and rl200 cams on gsxr bodies and got 189 on emeralds roller from 1800cc. Someone that attends the liphook meetings(can't remember name) had the same engine but with jenveys got 195!

[norma]

You're more than welcome to come and see mine, its in a few pieces at present tho!

[Craig-Chap]

If I was you I'd go and see norma's, half inch his engine mounts when he isn't looking and copy them! None available off the shelf. I'm currently struggling to get some made and it's getting quite annoying ! It shouldn't be difficult, but I can't weld, have no power at my garage and lady luck isn't looking my way at the moment apparently.

You should be able to get 170-180 out of a crate zetec without cams using Jenveys. This chap managed 177 on a used silvertop with Jenvey 45's: http://baileyperformance.co.uk/?p=184

You will be able to mod your current fuel tank and use a swirl pot as suggested. Alternator should be fine on the intake side, not sure about exhaust side. If you're spending lots of money on a crate engine/Jenveys/raceline stuff/etc I would spend an extra ~£200 on a decent lightweight flywheel while you are at it.

By the time you've added that lot up is it worth just buying a Dunnell engine? I don't know how much they are but I'd be interested in knowing the difference if anyone has looked into it? Or even a duratec, which would give you more potential in the future (but can get pretty pricey beyond 220bhp I've heard)?

Stick a build thread on here when you get around to it, I'd be interested to follow it!

[CMA]

I looked at Dunnell but there are no indicative prices on their website. But I imagine similar if not more than the prices on the Omex website here:
http://www.omextechnology.co.uk/Omex%20 ... 20v1_2.pdf

170bhp engine is about £4.5k and the 200bhp is £6.3k I'm looking to spend a little less than that.

As for the fly wheel, I read the 1.8 Zetec flywheel is lighter than the standard 2.0 and if I get it drilled for a pinto clutch it can take more power too.

With the current tank, if I used a swirl pot wouldn't I need a return to the tank, which I don't think it currently has, unless someone knows different?

[stylussprinter]

Swirl pots are unnecessary , simply run B & Q , 10mm copper pipe from tank to fuel rail and return to tank. Either remove your tank to mod ' or build a new ally one with a 40mm hole in the bottom centre , weld a circular 80mm(diam) x 50mm(deep) mini tank over the hole . Then weld an '' L '' shaped exit pipe of 13mm diam in the bottom of the mini tank .
The HP injection pump needs to be level with this exit (because they push -- not pull ) then connect straight into a good filter then into that 10mm copper .
I've been running mine this way since 2006 when converting to throttle bodies without issues of any kind and all on track .Matt downes copied mine too . Dunnell told me this years ago , saying that swirl pots are just a sales opportunity plus take more space where you don't have much AND the fuel gets warmed which you don't want.
When I told my sprinting friends what I was doing regarding fuel delivery they all said '' don't do it , you'll only have to do it properly afterwards , you can't have TB's without a swirl pot '' Then after I'd done it but not told them , they were staggered to find my car had no swirl pot about a year later
The trick is in that little tank where fuel can't move away from the exit when fast cornering and the large bore pipe holding more fuel and much less resistance

On another note I wouldn't dream of building a kit car engine without using a lightened flywheel --- mine's about 5.5kgs . Also a 2lt Zetec Silvertop plus good baffled sump on Webers , a decent exhaust and ARP rodbolts will give you 165bhp --- another 10bhp on TB's . A Blacktop should give another 10bhp if modded as above .

[Craig-Chap]

Ah- I didn't realise they would be that expensive. I sort of guessed at 3.5-4k for a 200 bhp one, clearly I was quite far off....

You are right, no return as standard. I saw someone on locostbuilders that had used a bike fuel pump in the bottom of their tank, I can't find the link now but it looked quite neat and used the original feed as the return. I can't remember if it was a low pressure one feeding a swirl pot or HP all the way to the rail, but it involved cutting a big hole in the bottom of the tank. It seemed a betted idea than welding a used tank! I'll keep looking. Having said that I brought DH2's old modded tank with a crude pot on the bottom of it- you should find some pics in his blog. I'm still using a small swirl pot (1L) though as I couldn't bring myself to cable tie the HP pump to the panhard rod to get it low enough!

I think the 2.0 flywheel is approx 10kgs and the 1.8 is around 8kgs. Something like this http://www.retro-ford.co.uk/shop/node/174 is about 5 kilos like Robs and is what I would have got if I had the cash (and it already takes a pinto clutch!).

Rob- are ARP's necessary on standard cams? I was under the impression that the cams ran out of puff long before you had reach the standard rev limit (7.2k?). I'm going to be risking it if I ever get the thing done.....

[stylussprinter]

Probably not but for 70 squids I'm a belt and braces man then if you fancy adding power later , it's just the head off job

[DH2]

Swirl pots are unnecessary

Agreed. A swirl pot just adds complication and potential failure modes to cover up for poor tank design. Whilst it may be a bit of hassle to get the tank out, it is a much simpler solution in the long run. Or you could just find a decent welder and weld the tank in-situ.

Dave

[CMA]

As far as tanks go I think I'll remove the old rusty job and replace with a nice baffled ally job, prob a little larger too with the right fittings in place. Especially as I already know someone to make it for me, just need to get a design together for him to work to.

The 1.8 flywheel is a far cheaper option than the £235+ 5.5kg one (but not as nice I agree), ok so it's not as light but then I do alot of road miles and not just track so the £30 for a 1.8 flywheel and poss £80ish for a drill and balance is alot cheaper. Thats if I can find somewhere to drill/balance one for me. Unless someone can tell me the extra £110 is really really worth it and I would notice a massive difference?

Think I'll be going with a raceline sump, so might just splash out another £70 on the ARP bolts while it's off. And saves doing it later as the longer term plan is to add cams.

Any other pointers, things to look out for or things I need to budget for?

[norma]

wouldn't get rid of my swirl pot - gives me another 2 litres!
Rob's right tho, they can heat up the fuel, I had to move and insulate mine as it was too close to the engine and the hot fuel used to seize up the inj pump - every day whilst driving through france
Its ok now though, I reckon you do need a return to tank with a swirl pot tho? Mine has - just drilled a return hole into the tank and put a suitable union on the pipe.

As for power, my black top was r/roaded at 199bhp @ wheels which is 230-240 depending upon what you allow for drivetrain losses. I think I spent abput £4k (inc new engine) to get that. Oh and tb's, another £2k (forgot about that, many years ago!)

Alex (aka Norma)

[DH2]

Any other pointers, things to look out for or things I need to budget for?

Yes. Think of a budget, then double it

Good that you are planning it now, I have saved a fortune on parts I have been able to buy second hand, due to not needing to buy them "now".

Your M16s will be fine, they weigh a ton, but are designed to stop a much heavier car.
Is the Golf rad you have the ally one with plastic end tanks? Should be fine I'd have thought.
Given that you can at least tack weld, I would make the engine mounts yourself (just get a pro to weld them up once you have tacked them, if you don't trust your own welds).

Dave

[mikeb]

If your on a budget go the swirl pot. Much less hassle to fit. I kept the std midget tank with its original low pressure pump as a lifter to the swirl pot then to the hp pump. Have always thought it would be best to have an ally tank fabricated but after 10 years, I don't think I'll bother. I've plumbed the return to the tank into the filler neck.

[Craig-Chap]

Yes. Think of a budget, then double it

+1!!!!