clubstylus

Nothing gets thrown away in my garage Rob. I've seen the price of that mesh in B&Q

Good to see your car on your posts looks nice and I'm glad you did the exposed side exit

Another update for those interested- please allow me to introduce myself I am the latest, now 8th owner of this car and have relocated it to sunny Aberdeen- plan to use it to enjoy the two good days a year and also get into some hill climbing. Purchased the car in July from a guy in Oxford/ Newbury area and drove up to Aberdeen in one hit- flat tyre aside was pretty uneventful.

Now I have the car home fun begins, list of things to do but nothing overly urgent. first is little things like adjustment of bonnet and doors plus the fitting of catch tank cut off switch extinguisher and new harnesses ready to hillclimb. Next is to replace the Weber alpha system with user tunable ECU etc, going to sell the whole lot and start again, unfortunately there is no support up here for weber tuning, see my add soon to be in the for sale section if you are interested. then change to 2lt zetec although am still toying with something different any ideas? looking at ST170 engine, lot written about them positive and negatively but it seems to me they are similar price to second hand black/ silver top but have larger valves ported head and stronger rods to begin with, add VVT delete and 45mm bodies and you should have a healthy lump without the cat cams I am planning + the nice raceline bits already on this engine will fit ie Sump, water rail alternator bracket etc. I will no doubt have a lot of questions as time goes on but aim to enjoy the rest of the summer before any drastic alterations!

Any other owners up in my neck of the woods?

thanks

Calum

Hi Calum

Welcome to Stylus ownership

Hasn't you car all ready got a raceline flowed head & cams, (along with all the external bits) all be it in 1.8 form ??
Original Aussie owner paid quite a lot to prep it for his euro trip - thought he'd had the engine tweaked too.

If it has, you'll be spending proper dosh on your blacktop to get to the same power as you've already got.

Rgds

Matt

Yeah already has, is around 170hp at the fly wheel apparently looking to up this to around 200 at the rear wheels, figure change to 2lt (st 170 engine) will be cheaper than trying to increase what its got, I know if I start tweaking the 1.8 I will hit a point where I will be looking to go for the 2lt so might as well do it now, is quick but coming from bikes just needs a wee bit more! I believe from looking through the history it has raceline bits not sure what stage the head is, did find some info saying it was using 2lt cams albeit still standard maybe people on here have more info?

Calum

Cheapest route to 200bhp@wheels would be a standard 2lt zetec then add a ROTREX supercharger . A friend with a 2lt zetec giving 220bhp@flywheel put a ROTREX on and it now has 300bhp@wheels --- I've driven it and it's bloody mental BUT loads of fun

Would imagine so! quite interesting looking at their website maybe one for the future once I have finished my latest spot of DIY. Will need to looking into hillclimb classes want to stay within road going classes preferably, and was looking to keep NA but super charging might be nice!

From what I have read 200HP FW is achievable from the ST170 lump without major mods (true or not I don’t know, only one way to find out though) getting that up to 200 RW may be another story, will see, will start another thread once I have decided what my course of action is to be, was reading the rotary engine build thread last night, there is an interesting idea! Did toy with bike engine when I was looking but want to be able to use the car for a bit of summer touring- reason I swapped from bikes to this is so my girlfriend would come with me. Was also thinking non ford really like the alfa twin sparks, had a 147 previously and was great was only the 1.6 but 120 ish HP was great fun and would punch far above its weight. However the type 9 box in the car is good with close ratios and I can't ignore the raceline bits that are there, could get a custom bell housing made up but getting into spending more than my allowance!

Calum

Hi Calum

The Valves in the 1.8 zetec are the same as the 2.0, as are the cams (after-market). So you could fit the existing head to a 2.0l bottom for easy/cheap power/torque increase.

Is it a silver or black top? This is my findings on the same subject. If silvertop, Raceline have probable converted to solid tappets. So you could easily rev to 7500 rpm all day long on a standard bottom end, & even go to 8000 on the Hillclimbes.

The ports on the ST170 are slightly different, requiring some minor modifications particularly on the intake side. Also the cams need changing due to the profile of the VVT on standard. I think the ST route will cost more money for no extra power. Yes the bottom end is stronger but if you start going above 8000 rpm it may need upgrading anyway.

In theory changing your 1.8 at 170bhp to a 2.0 will give 195bhp and cost £200 for 2.0 engine plus bolts & head gasket £50. Plus 1 weekend.

kevp wrote:Hi Calum

The Valves in the 1.8 zetec are the same as the 2.0, as are the cams (after-market). So you could fit the existing head to a 2.0l bottom for easy/cheap power/torque increase.

Is it a silver or black top? This is my findings on the same subject. If silvertop, Raceline have probable converted to solid tappets. So you could easily rev to 7500 rpm all day long on a standard bottom end, & even go to 8000 on the Hillclimbes.

The ports on the ST170 are slightly different, requiring some minor modifications particularly on the intake side. Also the cams need changing due to the profile of the VVT on standard. I think the ST route will cost more money for no extra power. Yes the bottom end is stronger but if you start going above 8000 rpm it may need upgrading anyway.

In theory changing your 1.8 at 170bhp to a 2.0 will give 195bhp and cost £200 for 2.0 engine plus bolts & head gasket £50. Plus 1 weekend.

Definitely not solid tappets on that car Kev ----- there's no real advantage going solid unless you intend over 260bhp according to Paul Dunnell and I'm still on standard crank/rods/pistons , apart from full balance/lightened crank/rods & pocketed pistons . On the dyno mine produced 243bhp@8350rpm but it's rev limited to 8000rpm for reliability / 231bhp

He'll need over 260bhp to get 200@wheels and supercharger's the cheapest way round that ----- naturally aspirated will cost loads more to that level

Good Info, Didn't realise the valve size was the same will pull the rocker cover off this weekend once I am back in the UK and check on the followers. Not sure if it is a silver top or a black top due to the raceline head is there other obvious ways to check? Engine number?

I had read on a good thread on Locost builder forum: http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthr ... tid=175158 the standard VVT cams could be used on the ST engine with a VVT delete- around $30 from a guy in the states. Seems the VVT is there to help with economy, emissions and low down pull by retarding cam timing, apparently timing standard ST cams static to about 109 degrees they work but there is the loss in economy/ low down torque and I would imagine it would be a little lumpy on tick over, maybe not though. Having run a mini with full race scatter pattern cam on the road know it is a bit of a pain but for a toy is liveable with. I also know Cat Cams do cams for the ST they aren't cheap but have built in VVT delete and are available in a variety of profiles from road to full race, with various internal mods needed as the lift increases. Like the idea of the pre ported head etc I believe the ST head was hand built, but if the raceline head I have is ported may be just as well with your suggestion, in an ideal world I would have access to a flow bench and an ST head to borrow but not that lucky.

I wonder how the valve size in the current head compares to the ST head, not sure what stage head it is. might have to do an investigation- need to change the cam belt anyway so only one way to find out (other way may be to read through all the paper work but not as fun!). I did email Raceline to ask if I supplied engine number would they be able to confirm spec- no reply may have to call when I am back home, in Norway at the moment so is a pain.

Realise there is different in the inlet ports on the ST have already been in contact with a few people to see about ST ported inlet for Jenvey bodies I am planning. Quite happy to port myslef but need to confirm there is sufficient material at the top of the manifold to allow this.

Have also read that the oil pump is the predominate limiting factor on the zetec for high revs but again need to look further into this. No matter which course I go down will be changing rod bolts to help at the bottom end a bit, will probably do big ends, mains and potentially small ends, rings.... when I am at it but I do have the problem with setting limits! Also looking at replacing the oil pump with a CFM one but maybe not, dry sumping is nice but that is definitely beyond my budget at the moment.

The internet is wonderful but need to go in with eyes open I think, so much info some good some bad wish there was a filter. If only it was an A series can’t go wrong with Vizard! unfortunately he doesn't do a zetec book.

Thanks for advice and info open to anything, is good to get other idea and opinions my other half tends to glass over when I start talking engines! dont blaim her though!.

Calum

in Reply to stylussprinter, is there really as much as 60BHP loss through drive train? not disputing just hadnt realised it was that much. Maybe stick to what I can get at the flywheel to begin with. 200 rear wheel is a wish and until my DIY is over budget will determine where I get to at what stage. I will say it will be 200hp one day, I have time though and getting there to me is as fun as being there.

have you still the standard oil pump at 8000RPM?

cseng wrote:in Reply to stylussprinter, is there really as much as 60BHP loss through drive train? not disputing just hadnt realised it was that much. Maybe stick to what I can get at the flywheel to begin with. 200 rear wheel is a wish and until my DIY is over budget will determine where I get to at what stage. I will say it will be 200hp one day, I have time though and getting there to me is as fun as being there.

have you still the standard oil pump at 8000RPM?

Well , firstly there's no headwork on your engine . Any ' new ' 2lt zetec will produce 165bhp with Weber 45's with no internal mod's --- a 1.8lt zetec 155bhp plus then with TB's approaching 170bhp if everything else is efficient(exhaust & inlet / air filter / lightened flywheel / raceline sump for safety) ---- if it had fast road cams it would give 183bhp ish . Bob Wilson's 1.8lt zetec had headwork too and gave 193bhp.
You will find it's exact spec from looking up under '' members cars '' on our main website .

My oil pump is the standard zetec but pick-up of course is right down close to the bottom of it's raceline sump as is yours. If you use the best possible oil plus addition of 250mls of ZX1 EXTRALUBE , it will fine on hillclimbs and sprints ---- I use MILLERS NANODRIVE 5W40 and new filter every year which means just 5 events --- then it's still clean and goes right into my wife's Toyota Corrola 1.6
25% is the safe estimate to be swallowed up by the drivetrain Calum but it varies from less to a lot more

Thanks Rob, good info, so I am still not swayed from the ST170 engine then I am afraid (welcome anyone who can sway me), there is one currently on ebay for £350 with 56k miles bit more than a standard 2lt zetec but that head would save a bit of work, and the VVT delete is not overly dificult, would be tempted to do i myself, have access to my fathers lathe and milling machine and the ability to use them too. If I do it myself will model it up and issue drawings for anyone to do the same.

Flywheel was my next question, again not sure what I have (both weight wise and size 7.5"/8.5" or something else?), but who makes good lightened flywheels for the zetec for reasonable price? and how light can you go and still keep a bit of road manner? I am not aiming for a weekend engine change so will probably build up and strip engine to be balanced and lighten correctly before final assembly, budget does not stetch to pistons at the moment, but if I can get the ECU changed over might look to do the engine slowly so this might change. I know for the spec I am looking at there are engines off the shelf from Dunnel and Raceline etc but as I said its the fun of getting there! I know I will probably spend more along the way but winters are long and dark in Aberdeen.

Comes down to planning for me need to do it correct first time for instance dont want to buy new TB and find they arent going to go with new engine in 3 months for that reason I am probably going to end up with an over sized chokes on the 1.8 to begin with.

thanks

Calum

cseng wrote:welcome anyone who can sway me

It was designed in the 80s and is made of pig iron?

DH2

Seeing as you're so stuck on the ST170 , I'll throw in the fact that one of my competitors has a 615kgs MK1 Escort spaceframe fitted with the ST170 engine ------------ it has 280bhp plus runs on 10 inch rear 8 inch front slicks ---
The ' rub ' is that my little 600kgs Stylus 231bhp silvertop , on road B1 tyres still beats it , granted not by a lot but enough