Kit car on a Hunter 4 Wheel Laser Alignment

[pigeondave]

Hi,

Has anyone done this? If so what did you set the machine to for the car type.
I have got a place ear marked to do this but they say that they need to input a car.

I'd like to know what the caster, camber and thrust lines are doing on my car.

Dave

[stylussprinter]

No experience of that sort of kit Dave , sounds way to clever for me

[pigeondave]

I too don't understand it Rob.
But I think its time i fitted the adjustable panhard rod you did for me.
I think there might be a small issue with the rod clearing the underside of the nose of the diff.
I may have to lower the chassis mounting for the panhard rod. (i did want to go flat floor in the future though, so would prefer not to).

We'll see what happens

[MattD]

No experience myself either - but perhaps you could start with the data for a similar layout specialist "production" car.

Front engine, londitudunal, RWD....
Caterham
Westfield

metal bodied, - different weight distribution ??
Suzuki Cappuccino
Mazda MX5

[stylussprinter]

I too don't understand it Rob.
But I think its time i fitted the adjustable panhard rod you did for me.
I think there might be a small issue with the rod clearing the underside of the nose of the diff.
I may have to lower the chassis mounting for the panhard rod. (i did want to go flat floor in the future though, so would prefer not to).

We'll see what happens

If you lower the panhard rod(I did mine years ago)do the chassis bracket not the axle bracket . Move it out of the seatpan to the same position but underneath the corner of that seatpan . Cut a 50mm piece of 40mm angle iron and weld in a plate across one end inside the angle. Drill a small hole in the centre so you can pop rivet it in position underneath that corner. Drill a half inch hole in one side of the angle to take the panhard rod . Now all you need to do is weld it on all sides , upside down to the seatpan , shorter half inch bolt plus washers/spacers for the rodend ---- job done

[MattD]

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=818&p=6717&hilit=+panhard#p6717

Good info here...

[pigeondave]

Thanks Matt,

I thought I remember seeing something like that on the web.

Dave

[Pete&Matt]

We'll see what happens

If you lower the panhard rod(I did mine years ago)do the chassis bracket not the axle bracket . Move it out of the seatpan to the same position but underneath the corner of that seatpan . Cut a 50mm piece of 40mm angle iron and weld in a plate across one end inside the angle. Drill a small hole in the centre so you can pop rivet it in position underneath that corner. Drill a half inch hole in one side of the angle to take the panhard rod . Now all you need to do is weld it on all sides , upside down to the seatpan , shorter half inch bolt plus washers/spacers for the rodend ---- job done [/quote]

This is what our chassis had, which was one of the last ones done by Tim.

[mikeb]

Hi Dave,

Dean over at Discount Tyres in Worthing did mine. I don't know the make/model of the aligning equipement but it is a large 4 wheel laser. Not that far from you.

Dean does lots of caterhams and kits so is used to doing our sort of cars.

You get a print out castor/camber toe for all wheels plus thrust lines.

Mike

[pigeondave]

Thanks Mike,

I actually found them on Friday on the web.

I was looking at using field tyres as they are very local, but they were a bit reluctant to look at the Fury.

The call to the Worthing place was good as they just told me to call before I come down to make sure the wait would not be too long.
They didn't seem at all worried about it being a kit car.

Dave

[Antnicuk]

i did mine at a mates garage and we entered ford capri as i have an Atlas axle from a capri. You could enter escort.

I have to say though, that it wasnt really worth while. I set up my toe with string and sticks and it was spot on, I set up my camber with a digital sprit level which was also bang on. The only thing it did allow me to check was the Caster but i couldnt really adjust that very much and it was ok. So since then i have made a metal gauge to set up my toe. Its just 1 long square tube with 2 arms on it, one adjustable. The arms are square to the main tube with pointers on that meet the front wheels, just put them up against the front and rear of the front wheels and you get the toe.

The 4w alignment wont help you align your rear axle to the front wheels if i remember correctly.

[pigeondave]

The 4w alignment wont help you align your rear axle to the front wheels if i remember correctly.

Shirley it would, wouldn't it?

I have been thinking about this and even measuring the distance between the front and rear wheels (centre to centre) on both sides would show if the axle is slightly off.
If the distances are identical on both sides I may just need to adjust the panhard rod to locate the axle centrally (left to right).
If the distances are different, this would show that the axle is slightly twisted. I would then have to adjust the longitudinal watts linkage on one side of the axle to get each centre to centre measurement correct.

I'll keep this thread up to date once I have visited the garage.

If its out on the watts linkage it'll be a good excuse to stick a rod end on the chassis end of the bars

[MattD]

I have been thinking about this and even measuring the distance between the front and rear wheels (centre to centre) on both sides would show if the axle is slightly off.
If the distances are identical on both sides I may just need to adjust the panhard rod to locate the axle centrally (left to right).
If the distances are different, this would show that the axle is slightly twisted. I would then have to adjust the longitudinal watts linkage on one side of the axle to get each centre to centre measurement correct.

If its out on the watts linkage it'll be a good excuse to stick a rod end on the chassis end of the bars

Interesting topic ....

Isn't this what the 4w alignment force thrust lines are intended to show ?

I've tried to dial out the underlying problem from my chassis, using the fully adjustable rear on my car.
It did make a significant handling difference, even using some pretty basic measuring methods.

Stylus chassis made post-Nev, but pre-Tim can have issues due to the jig used at the time.
When I measured up with the original fixed length axle links in place mine was 12mm out in the wheelbase.
What I assumed during measuring is that the front suspension turrets must be right & its a case of getting the rear in-line, but that isnt necessarily so !.

I'll let Rob comment, but his corrective surgery was pretty major - to quote a quote on it not being "square" - "what do you expect, it isn't an F1 car!

Dave, I know yours is a Fury so probably different, but you hint that its had a shunt in the past.
Must be worth a proper visual check of the front-end too.

Just my 2 pence worth

Matt

[stylussprinter]

I discovered all these discrepencies as soon as I got the chassis built on it's wheels so made my alterations then ---- at least , after telling the then factory that things were not right and the answer I got was JP designed this chassis and it mustn't be altered in any way . The guy who was making all JP's chassis at the time , plus many other manufacturers , brought his jigs down here to prove I was wrong . After I dismantled part of the front end he then offered up the jig which no way was going to go in ---- he says '' have you got a sledge hammer ? ''. Then absolutely hammered it part way in and that was it .
After some strong words from me , he then cut off the towers and re welded them where I'd requested (polite for telling him his job)
I had other things done to help the left to right front/rear wheel lengths too , some time after that . The rear links were exactly correct so I slotted the rear hole behind the towers containing the rocker bearing . A small hole was drilled above that bearing bolting hole acting as a hinge for a swinging plate. The plate had a normal hole(for that bearing bolt)then a slotted hole lower down .
SO --- the plate could be moved left/right within the 25mm slot , hinged obove the bearing bolt then all tightened up once the desired lengths were measured. I think I'm the only one to do this although I let it be known to others at the time what faults I'd found .
I must point out that Tim was not the owner when all this occured

[pigeondave]

"what do you expect, it isn't an F1 car!

Matt

There have been some good discussions on pistonheads relating to comments like this. Feelings appear to be divided.
One argument is that if you put a road car (daily driving tin top) on the 4w alignment and get it measured, they are not very often equal (distance between wheels, front and rear) , so if your kit car is out, just live with it, as most cars are out anyway.

The other side is that due to the chassis being hand built, near perfection can be had (especially if you have a jig). I have heard that a difference of 5mm is unacceptable at some manufacturers.


What doesn't help me is that the rear tub is not on correctly.
Its about 1.5" over to the off side. This wasn't too noticeable with 185's on the rear but now that I have gone to 205's its very noticeable.

Still its all part of the fun.