clubstylus

Hi, tried to post yesterday so will try again.

My car has just failed its SVA test on a few minor points (easily fixed) however there are are few major problems which I will have to sort out,( kit supplied be SSC Peter Powel).

1, Rear roll bar mountings do not have internal welded captive nuts in the chassis box section ( kit supplied be SSC Peter Powel). SVA tester classed these as part of the seat belt anchor points so I have to cut a letter box into the box section, weld in captive nuts, take photos then weld back up again.
2. Front uprights, as they are tubular ( as supplied by SSC) the surface against which the locking washers bear against is not flat hence I have to weld some small flat bars to the uprights to fold the lock washers against.
3. Used the rear axle design weight of 450Kg as supplied in the SSC manual, measured weight was marginally over this hence have to provide written evedence from the kit supplier ( SSC Peter Powel) on headed note paper declaring the design weight is in fact 500Kg, told tester SSC no longer exists ( either Peter or Tim) leaving me really stuck. Tester said he may accept a letter from the origional designer ie Jeremy Phillips, I have emailed Jeremey but to date no response, does anyone else have any ideas how or who could write me such a letter? could be a real show stopper.

Regards

Phil

hi, sorry to hear that.

Looks like i will have to weld those nuts in there too then or just SVA without roll bar. Though i think nobody has those nuts there, do they?
But my rear roll bar mounting at the chassis are just 2 flat plates with 3 holes in it, no box section to be found. Or do you mean the stays that go forward?

Can you picture what you mean by point 2? Might need to do that too then. Would a split pin through the threaded part of the ball joint do the trick too? Or a nut retainer with split pin like on the front wheel hubs?

So weigh it before filling out the sva form to see if you got it correct or just put 500kgs anyway.

Do you have a escort/live axle based stylus or sierra/deDion/IRS Stylus?

Re : Roll bar,

Are they talking about the stays that used to go through the boot floor and just "sit" on the chassis - Rubbish photo http://www.number69.net/stylus/sml_imag ... %20bar.jpg ?

In which case mine failed for the same reason, I drilled a 8mm hole through the chassis & the useless bracket on the roll bar, then enlarged the outside hole in the chassis to 10mm and fitted a piece of steel tube inside the chassis to prevent the box section being crushed by the bolts, two M8 8.8 bolts then pass through the roll bar bracket, and then through the chassis - which I suspect is stonger and easier than cutting holes (weakening the box section ) and re-welding - You could weld the tubes into the chassis If you wanted ! - It worked for me however that was 7 years ago.

My tester seemed to miss point 2 - I know this sounds extreme but you could just tack weld the balljoint to the upright and forget about the lockwashers ?

I also had the design weight issue, I used 450 / 450 / 900 (live axle car) as advised by PP at the time, the 950 was apparently a typo. I did not have to prove any evidence of this it was just a case of filling in form - has this changed ?

I also had issues proving that my (1997) 1.8 Zetec was in fact a 1992 Zetec (No Cat) so faced with a bit of a problem.... So.....I........ forged the documentation..... No that I am suggesting that you should do the same......

Nice colour (Renault by chance?)

1. I think the tester may have misinterpreted the rules, it states in the SVA inspection manual (section 5, page 3 note 2) "in order that a seat belt can be separated from the anchorage without causing damage to the anchorage, for example a mounting in the side of a tube or box section, it is a requirement that the bolt is secured into a "fixed" threaded hole or captive nut. (The presenter may be required to demonstrate that this condition is met). The bolt may be secured into an alternative fixing e.g. a lock nut of suitable strength, where access is provided to the "rear" of the mounting to enable separation/re-attachment of the belt.
I think he is wrong having read the above, however, to keep him happy just put a longer set of bolts through and use locking nuts. The rule is only there to ensure that the belt can be removed, I'd give them a call and query it - I found the bristol test station to be really helpful before and during my test (and retest).

All stylus rollbars that I'm aware of just bolt in and are without captive nuts.

3. you could use the fisher fury build manual as they share the same chassis and both were designed by JP, the pdf is here http://build.fishersportscars.co.uk/dow ... ar04-1.pdf
page 4 mentions JP
page 20 lists axle weights of 500kg.



Hope this helps

Alex

The weights declared by P.Powell for sva were 950kgs and in the build manual it said to overdrill going through the chassis and install ' crush ' tubes . I would never drill and just bolt anyway

Thanks for your responses so far. For clarification on the roll bar issue, the testers argument was that as the top seat belt mount is integral to the roll bar and the roll bar is then bolted to the chassis then these fixings are also classed as seat belt mounts and have to prevent the box section from crushing when the rear roll bar stays are bolted to it through the boot floor. To prevent crushing I drilled through the box section and used two bolts per side with nyloc nuts, both sides were fitted with external steel plates to spread the load and prevent crushing but the tester said this would not suffice and wanted either welded captive nuts or internal tubes which must also be welded inside and out side the box section. The job is do able but is just going to be a hassle!

For reference the car has an escort rear axle and the paint is VW summer blue.

Cheers

Phil.

phils wrote:1, Rear roll bar mountings do not have internal welded captive nuts in the chassis box section ( kit supplied be SSC Peter Powel). SVA tester classed these as part of the seat belt anchor points so I have to cut a letter box into the box section, weld in captive nuts, take photos then weld back up again.

Blimey, I think the tester is being a bit mean here. The normal practice is to drill the box section, insert 8mm I/D tube into the holes, and use two M8 bolts with nylocs each side.

phils wrote: 2. Front uprights, as they are tubular ( as supplied by SSC) the surface against which the locking washers bear against is not flat hence I have to weld some small flat bars to the uprights to fold the lock washers against.

I had no problem with this. Lock tabs are simply bashed up against the rounded part, but I think there is a 'sticky-out-bit' that would prevent the lock tab rotating.

phils wrote: 3. Used the rear axle design weight of 450Kg as supplied in the SSC manual, measured weight was marginally over this

Must be a heavy car to exceed 450Kg on the back. I think my V8 was about 390kg on the back axle (with me sat in it!)

Which SVA centre? Would it be simpler to re-book another test at a different centre?

Jeff

It's design weight not actual weight

With regards to the lock tab I ground a small flat on the upright on mine so could bend it over that and on to the insert.

George

Update on the rear roll bar to chassis fixings, I have re read the SVA manual and think the tester has got it wrong. The seat belt mounting has to be removable, which it is,as the top seat belt mounting on the roll bar is into a welded captive nut.
Where the roll bar joins onto the chassis, this has to be "of adequate strength" no mention of welding in captive nuts, the tester seems to be applying the seat belt fixing rule to the roll bar / chassis fixing point which is incorrect.
I am going to offer a sound engineering solution to this problem either using internal tubes to prevent the box section crushing or as the fixing only has to be from one side I may propose blind bolts, see http://www.blindbolt.co.uk, if they are good enough for the engineering industry they would be good enough for this application.
I still maintain my pair of M8 8.8 bolts through the box section with spreader plates and nylocs is of "adequate strength"

Regards

Phil.

SVA also check on the tensile strength of the bolts. I'm not sure they will allow your hidden bolts.