My alterations to use ally uprights on a wider track/info

[stylussprinter]

Specifically for Ross(puppiesballs ) although it may be of interest to someone else

My widened front end Classic .

Outside measurement from right wheel arch to left wheel arch , above the wheel centres = 149cm's (X)

My self made wishbones to suit this width using ally uprights/hubs Cortina geometry.
Chassis pick-up points end of wishbone = 20cms wide , centre to centre of threaded inserts.
Length from inner insert to outer insert ie. upright end of wishbone = 17cms

Using national rodends or equivalent items and the exact same uprights as me THEN your wishbones need to be longer by the difference between your RT measurement (X) and mine (X) divided by 2 .
If altering your top rocker to take a rodend , then it needs to be the same amount longer as the wishbones. Mine is 14.5cms from outer insert to the centre of the rocker pivot tube.
Also use 5/8ths shank not like mine 1/2 inch particularly the top rocker rodend . Mine are 1/2 inch bore and 1/2inch shank and even then only the bottom rodends snapped when I hit that little tree at Eelmoor . I think for road mostly use then 5/8ths shank is safer for that top rocker especially.

Check the wishbone measurements with the photos I sent you Ross then all will become clear

[PuppiesBalls]

Just seen this, Thanks Rob!!

[stylussprinter]

Just seen this, Thanks Rob!!

I sent you a text and email to say I'd put the measurements for my ' front end ' on the website the same day

[PuppiesBalls]

no excuses

Rod ends been ordered now!!
And my doupts regarding the RD ally uprights have been releived, There heat treated to avoid grain groth & are much much higher quality then the MNR/ Race Leda Ally Uprights, FEA shows that a 650kg car cornereing at 2g's & hitting a large pothole causing a further 3g's shock still leave a factor of 3 safety margin on the strength of the upright

[stylussprinter]

no excuses

Rod ends been ordered now!!
And my doupts regarding the RD ally uprights have been releived, There heat treated to avoid grain groth & are much much higher quality then the MNR/ Race Leda Ally Uprights, FEA shows that a 650kg car cornereing at 2g's & hitting a large pothole causing a further 3g's shock still leave a factor of 3 safety margin on the strength of the upright

Good man ---- you're on your way to an adjustable front end All you need then is an ARB up front

[kevp]

Rob, I would also be intrested in the wider front suspention.

Any one else made up/fitted wider front wishbones & rocker arm?

[Antnicuk]

me too, i looked for details of Robs conversion the other day but couldnt find it. Did you put details on this site Rob?

It looks like you may have a group buy on your hands Rob, i would also like to be able to lower the car a little more.

[stylussprinter]

What I actually worked out for Ross/puppiesballs was how to manufacture wishbones etc the correct length to change his uprights from Sierra to alloy uprights from Rally Design / Cortina not Escort . He couldn't simply copy mine as his is an RT which is already wider than a Classic . Having said that , both of you have Classics so copying mine should widen your cars 40mm's . If you use the Cortina alloy upright , originally Raceleda's design then those hubs will each be 10mm's wider than an Escort hub . So half my extra track has come from the hubs . The major difference in alloy Escort/Cortina uprights though is the stub location ---- it's 20mm's higher up , lowering the car unless you choose to adjust the shock seats so's not to use all that potential . The Escort is simply a carbon copy of our chopped uprights so doesn't get the extra benefits . It's not a cheap solution but if you decide to do it , then yes , I could make sets of bottom wishbones to take either 1/2 inch or 5/8ths shank rodends . The top rocker could be used as is and an adapter made to fit into the alloy upright but this doesn't give you top adjustment . I chose to cut the thick steel circle off and weld in a threaded end to take a rodend. Best thing really , rather than Reading this lot , would be to look and chat face to face so you can see everything involved before any BIG mod's

[Antnicuk]

cheers rob, out of interest, what off set are your front wheels?

[stylussprinter]

cheers rob, out of interest, what off set are your front wheels?

Mine are ET15 which I worked out would be needed when I lowered the car years back , so needed to extend the arches because the body curves in --- so once you cut some out of the arch then the tyre top is exposed . I then fitted bottom wishbones/top rocker to suit the geometry around an ET15 wheel , 7x 15 . Very big offsets as in modern cars don't suit our geometry. Matt runs ET12 so his wheels are 6mm's wider apart than mine.

[MattD]

Rod-ended front end is something I'd like to do too....

Much more than all the work to go IRS
Whilst nice, I've got too much ££ invested in Quaife ATB bits, & best of all.. its simple & just works, no setup headaches to worry about. If I was building again... then YES !

I'd be thinking very carefully about the top upright / rocker arm joint though.
No intention to rubbish Rob's setup, but his rocker uses a rod-end mounted sideways with a pin on top of the upright - ie Rod-end in shear load, which is completely outside its operating spec.
OK on-track (smooth tarmac, minimal bump), but not something I'd like to run through pot-holes on the road for any length of time. Intentional lightness for purpose is great, but always a compromise otherwise.
Might get away with larger shank rod-ends maybe ??

And I'd be going for billet uprights, not cast, no question. - and Rob has a source for them too.

Some nice tubular rockers, with a circlip retained spherical bearing is what's needed I think.
The King Pin Incl could be adjusted by moving the rocker within holes on the turret - bit like the Fury pic Tony posted. Does change the angle the shock is acting at though too !

That & rod-ended lower wishbones (& adjustment spacers) would make for a tuneable setup, with original or raceleda type uprights.

I know that Rob has tried ALL of the above to get where he is now - and quite rightly he should keep the pros & cons of some of that under his hat

If you want to go there Rob - I'll buy a set.

And nobody's even mentioned rack positioning & bump steer yet....

[hearbear]

But what about rack positioning & bump steer

[Antnicuk]

Matt, how would the spherical bearing be held in place matt? can you buy a housing for it which would be welded to the end of the rocker?

Rob, are you using a stock rack and arms? Also, what scrub do you have? i have a bit and i am running 45 off sets, if i was running ET15 i would have lots more scrub. Do you know if it is a problem on our cars?

[stylussprinter]

Can't answer your question on scrub Tony because you haven't got my uprights --- I certainly wouldn't use 45 offstes !!!! Secondly I'm not a '' figures '' man . All my info comes from driving , analysing , modifying and re analysing etc . This has led to my car handling in such a manner to give me confidence which in turn delivers speed . As I've said many times to many other Stylus drivers --- you can't cherry pick from my setup . It behaves the way it does due to every single chassis/ suspension mod' I've developed in competition driving and not to figures of adjustment taken from others . All I can say is that going my route gives you the ability to adjust --- what you adjust etc is down to you. You , for instance , might drive my car and totally hate it so you wouldn't be quicker --- best knowledge is learned not read

[stylussprinter]

Matt , if you read my original advice to Ross , I said best use 5/8ths shank for the outer top rocker . Also if choosing the safer stronger top spherical bearing route you loose some adjustment options when trying to maintain the desired track ---- but I do take your point . If I could come up with something to acheive strength and adjustment options , I'd have done it . Even so , the top 1/2 inch shank rodend didn't snap after hitting the tree , I replaced it to reduce risk . So it stuck the punishment even though not working within it's design brief