Feeling skittish at high speed

[CMA]

Hi all,

Had a run out this weekend and put a few hard miles on the Stylus. One thing I noticed is at low speed everything is fine, turn in is good and car feels planted.

But at higher speeds 60+ in a straight line the car feels very light, skittish and almost not connected to the road, as if its floating, if that makes sense. I checked all my nuts and everything is still connected solidly.

I had it set to 0.5deg toe in late last year. Perhaps this is too much and causing the horrible feeling at higher speeds?

I have gaz shocks on and front are set to 1 click and back are at 5 clicks. I'm running 17psi at the front and 20psi at the rear (I'm normally with light'ish passenger when out)

Any pointers to where I should start fiddling to sort this?

Cheers

Rob

[stylussprinter]

Hi all,

Had a run out this weekend and put a few hard miles on the Stylus. One thing I noticed is at low speed everything is fine, turn in is good and car feels planted.

But at higher speeds 60+ in a straight line the car feels very light, skittish and almost not connected to the road, as if its floating, if that makes sense. I checked all my nuts and everything is still connected solidly.

I had it set to 0.5deg toe in late last year. Perhaps this is too much and causing the horrible feeling at higher speeds?

I have gaz shocks on and front are set to 1 click and back are at 5 clicks. I'm running 17psi at the front and 20psi at the rear (I'm normally with light'ish passenger when out)

Any pointers to where I should start fiddling to sort this?

Cheers

Rob

Check that the front lower chassis rail height is around 20mm's lower than the chassis height at the rear where the ally panel meets the steel seatpan . Toe in will be fine at straight ahead or ' just' toe in . Camber 1 to 1.5 degrees (quick ballpark check for camber = put a spirit level vertically tight against the tyre at the ground , move to perfectly vertical , then measure from the top of tyre sidewall to the spirit level . Nine millimetres is approximately 1 degree negative .) This isn't accurate but very close. To be more accurate you'll need to measure from ground to the top tyre wall widest point ----- that then becomes a radius for a theoretical circle . From that you can find the circunference of that circle/2 x pi x radius . Divide by 4 to equate to your tyrewall/ground 90 degree position THEN you have a quarter circle length of say --- 890mm's divide by 90(degrees!) which gives 9.8mm's per 1 degree neg . The only error possible is then the bottom tyrewall bulging due to low pressure BUT this has served me well for years.
Unless you weigh pretty heavy (I'm 13st) then 16 to 18 psi is plenty all round. YOKO and TOYO respond well to these pressures 48's and 888's .
Then there's castor which isn't easy to adjust on standard ssc suspension. However , you can remove the bottom wishbones ---- grind off as much as possible from both inner poly metal holders / radiator end NOT car rear . Grind off the appropriate amount from the poly and inner tube to suit THEN slide the wishbone hard to the front and washer behind. This will increase castor. You may need to tidy up with weld where you've ground off though.
Shocks --- if your shocks are 14 or so clicks then set the front at 4 to 6 clicks -------------- the rear at 7 to 9 clicks. If your shocks move more than 14 then simply adjust them in the same percentage to the total as above.
Don't know what spring lbs rates you have .
These things all done should give you a fairly balanced car at any speed . Insufficient castor often leads to high speed wandering or tricky to hold in a line but follow the other adjustments first then try it out Rob.

[CMA]

Thanks.

I do weigh a bit more than 13st (more like 18st) and a passenger of about 10st is in quite often, with a 1.7 Xflow up front so I guess a couple more psi might be needed. I have Toyo T1Rs on.

I'll check the max clicks on the dampers I think the max is 37-40 clicks but will double check. No idea what spring rates I have either, I need to find that out somehow.

As for the ride height, not sure what it's set at currently but I have an underslung exhaust so I cant drop the front, plus the spring seats are at the bottom on the front anyway and jacking the back up might look silly but I'll have a measure and see whats what.

The castor changes sound a bit too advanced for me to start with so I'll have a play with the other setting first and see whats what.

Thanks for the pointers.

[stylussprinter]

Thanks.

I do weigh a bit more than 13st (more like 18st) and a passenger of about 10st is in quite often, with a 1.7 Xflow up front so I guess a couple more psi might be needed. I have Toyo T1Rs on.

I'll check the max clicks on the dampers I think the max is 37-40 clicks but will double check. No idea what spring rates I have either, I need to find that out somehow.

As for the ride height, not sure what it's set at currently but I have an underslung exhaust so I cant drop the front, plus the spring seats are at the bottom on the front anyway and jacking the back up might look silly but I'll have a measure and see whats what.

The castor changes sound a bit too advanced for me to start with so I'll have a play with the other setting first and see whats what.

Thanks for the pointers.

If you're 18st then the rear shocks need to be 250lbs and same in the front unless you use my ARB then you could get away with 225lbs up front. It doesn't matter a toss what it looks like but just make sure the rear chassis height is 25mm minimum higher than the front , with your weight at 18st. I've had a FURY here to set up for a guy weighing 18st and it now handles very well with 250lbs springs all round plus my ARB . Rear chassis 25mm higher than the front at the positions I mentioned plus 18 psi tyre pressures . Toe straight ahead with 1.5 degrees neg camber plus I corner weighted it. If your Stylus is not a very recent chassis number then it's highly likely to have 180lbs springs up front and 130lbs at the rear ------ these are TOTALLY inadequate especially at you weight . You must be able to see the shiny shock piston behind the spring showing around 15mm front and 50mm rears with your weight in the car OR the shocks will become a solid object at some point , losing all suspesion and possibly bending the suspension arms they're bolted into .
Sit in the car when those adjustments are done and get someone to check with a mirror and torch. Good luck and have fun.

[CMA]

Cheer Rob, lots to check then.

I know the Stylus was SVA'd in 2004 I think so prob on the older springs you mention. I'll have to find out somehow what they are. But as far as I'm aware I've never bottomed out, even when I hit an unsighted speedhump at some speed.

I wonder if there's someone local that I could take it to and get it setup properly at some point. I will have a look around, in the mean time I'll get the tape out and have a play.

Rob

[stylussprinter]

If they don't know Stylus's or track drive then you're better following what I've said -- unless of course they follow the same guidelines .

[norma]

i had wandering at speed with zero toe. one turn on one steering ball joint was enough to give me stability.

[stylussprinter]

Or was it towing out a touch Rob's /CMA reckoned it was half a degree in so I didn't mention toe out being a cause

[CMA]

I had it set at 1deg toe in last year by Kwick Fit after I fitted a new rack. Since then I've had new tyres on.

It was something on my list of things to check anyway, once I figure out how to do it in my garage rather than pay someone to do it.

Cheers,

Rob

[CMA]

Just a thought, your recomended spring rates, do they take into account the live axle I'm running? or doesn't it make any difference?

Hoping to get under the car this weekend if it all passes the MOT tomorrow for a play.

[stylussprinter]

That spring lbs for front/rear is for live axle Rob. To set toe at close to accurate ---- make sure the steering wheel is straight ahead . Find some straight steel or ally angle around 4 to 6 feet long . Wedge or cable tie one end across the wheel half way up ie wheel centre , parallel to the ground , then a milk crate or log at the other end. Don't cable tie too tight or the angle ally will curve outwards. Do this both sides. Then directly in front of thefibre glass bonnet measure between those two angle lengths . Move the tape forward for a second measure 15 inches(or whatever your wheel diameter) --------- If wider it's towing out / less then it's towing in . Mine is set to 1/16th of an inch which is almost straight ahead . I use two pieces of ally 30mm angle 6ft long balanced on twomilk crates . It waschecked by someone else with professional equipment a year or so back just to see if my bodge was accurate ----- it was spot on so it's just however careful you are with the two ally lengths and not pulling them together with the tape . Your spring weights will be scratched onto one end of the flat spring end --- may be rusty but when brushed up you'll see it Rob.

[CMA]

Just been out and measured under the front at 148mm and 165mm at the rear under the seat pan, so currently a 17mm rake.

Also got a max of 31 clicks on the Gaz dampers, they were set at 5 and I've dropped it down to 1 click to see what its like. If I put it up to 10 clicks then I cant even get the car to bounce by pushing on the top of the rocker.

Will pop the dampers off at the weekend and see if I can see markings on the springs.

Thanks for the tips so far.

Rob

[stylussprinter]

That's the purpose of shocks ---- stopping bounce So from my previous advice you'll be setting 8 to 11 clicks front then 15 to 20 clicks rear . Shocks are there to control the speed at which the spring deflects which you can feel when putting pressure on a shock off the car without a spring on it. Gaz must have changed their design because they used to have 24 from memory

[MattD]

And you still want the rake to be set with you sat in the seat (or a load to simulate), not the static measure.
17mm is probably not enough, will be almost level when you sit in it (especially if you've got 130 rear springs).

At your weight, quite likely you + passenger = negative rake/nose up attitude = light front end.

Not so much of a problem for 11st guys like me

[CMA]

Thanks guys, I'm still learning. Not got any expierence or knowledge in this area to fall back on so your help is very much apreciated.

I'm going to drop the shocks off tonight if I get time to see what the springs are before playing around with the damper settings as if they are naff springs then I'd be wasting my time.

With the current rear springs there is no way I can wind up the ride height otherwise the spring would be getting very squashed, which implies I have the 130 on the rear. I shall find out tonight hopefully.

THanks again chaps.